Talk:Faraghin

cedh: that wasn't really a timeline mismatch in my opinion-- just a case of incomplete information in several places. Faraghin is a distinct language from around Tsinakan's time to the time it's completely replaced by Fáralo-- so roughly -1900 to -800. (Ndak Ta kwir 'goat' is a loan from khoir, which already shows the Faraghin vowel shift-- in Proto-Ferogh it'd be *xajr-- so that change has to happen quite early.)

In the long run it'd be nice to work out what changes occur during that long period, of course-- maybe some additional ones should be added for "Late Faraghin". Corumayas 22:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

The fault is originally mine. I came up with the Ferogh-group sound changes intending it to result in Faraghin/Ferajin remaining quite similar speech varieties, because I had assumed - for no better reason than pure brainfart - that the Faraghin word list presented by Zompist reflected the language in the immediately post-Tsinakan era. Unfortunately this leaves us with a Faraghin that remains virtually static for a millennium.

To fix this, I wonder if it might be possible to re-tool the sound changes a bit, like moving the sibilant shift θ s > s ʃ forward to only happen in Faraghin and coming up with some more sound changes that can be spliced into the history there without ruining the reconstruction project, if that's at all possible. (I'm assuming the Ferajin changes can simply be re-worked, as AFAIK there is nothing that depends on them but the name Ferajin itself.) If it weren't for the great amount of work that has already gone into E-I reconstruction I would make some major changes... ah well, live and learn. Radius 16:24, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I'd be happy to see some more SC detail here too, although I'm not sure whether we should really add many changes to Faraghin itself. If Proto-Isthmus dates to c. -3000 and Zompist's Faraghin wordlist to c. -1500, we have about 18 distinct sound shifts in 1500 years, which looks like quite the right amount. Moving the sibilant shift might be good though, and maybe one or two additional changes... It all depends on how Zomp imagined the timing.

For Feråjin OTOH we could definitely use some more changes if they're meant to lead into classical times. I think the best way to go about this - if it fits in with the timing for Faraghin - would be to declare that what we currently have describes the language of c. -1500, and then whoever wants to derive an eastern daughter of Fáralo can add some changes to get the desired phonetic influence from Late Feråjin.

How is Proto-Eigə-Isthmus coming along anyway? It would be great to know more about how the languages of this family work, and to have more vocabulary that can be put through the Isthmus changes for testing them. Corumayas, any chance of discussing this on IRC sometime? - Cedh 17:29, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I think zompist's wordlist is probably a little later than that-- the Faraghin conquest is ca -1400, and its influence on early Faralo would presumably take place over the next few centuries.

Adjusting some of the Faraghin changes, and modifying Feråjin a bit, seems definitely doable. I have a few ideas about that: Faraghin needs /l/ > /r/ in clusters for sure; we should decide on the outcome(s) of PI /d`/; and-- based on the Faralo name /fE"rOdZ/-- Feråjin <j> should ultimately represent something like /dZ/ or maybe /J\/ (I was thinking of adding a change /j w/ > /J\ g_w/ at the end of the current list).

PEI is really languishing at the moment, though. I think I've about reached the limits of what I can "reconstruct", and I'm finding it difficult to move on to creating from scratch. Your[PL] input would be very welcome. What's a good time to talk on IRC? My schedule is fairly open, but I often work on weekends... This week I'm free Wed and Thurs, and then next Mon and Tues; but this Saturday morning/early afternoon (Pacific time) could work too. Corumayas 21:24, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

I probably won't have much internet access in the next two weeks or so because I'm moving, but within the next 48 hours I'll have my IRC client running most of the time except for the evening of your time zone. Chances of meeting Radius should be even better because he's online rather much, and he's in the same time zone as you iirc. So just drop in... - Cedh 22:30, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Wednesday/Thursday it is, then. That fits into Cedh's 48 hours and works well for me too. I will be most reliably online in the afternoons tomorrow and Thursday - say, between noonish and threeish, Pacific time. I can't promise to "sit by the phone", but I will stay logged into #akana and keep checking it, to the extent that I'm at the computer, which should be most of the time.

Perhaps the next step with PEI might be to just start feeling it out... like, say, make up 20 PEI roots for test purposes, exploring as much of the phonologically allowed territory as you can with them, and run them through all the changes for Miw and Faraghin. This could shed a lot of light on what most needs to be worked on and decided on - do the outputs look right for Miw and Faraghin? They probably won't, entirely, but seeing exactly how they don't fit the bill could be very helpful. That's where I'd start, at least! :) Radius 02:31, 4 March 2009 (UTC)